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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:11 am 
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Below are the current proposed rules for 2015 TT and PT regarding tires. These ARE NOT FINAL RULES, and this can be considered a comment period. However, for those of you that have time-sensitive decisions to make with contingency tires, I would say that there is a high probability that the +22 and +10 point listings for those tires are solid.

A. TIRES:
1) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: BFG R1S, Goodyear Eagle RS AC (autocross), Hankook Z214 (C90 & C91 compound only), Hoosier A7, Hoosier Wet DOT (if used in dry conditions—see section 5.6) +22
2) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: Hoosier A6 +17
3) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires and those with a UTQG treadwear rating of
40 or less not listed otherwise in these rules: BFG R1, Goodyear Eagle RS,
Hankook Z214 (C71, C70, C51, C50), Hoosier R6 & R7 & SM7, Kumho V710 (note: Continental Tire Sportscar Challenge EC-Dry tires OK (225, 245, 275) +10
4) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: Toyo Proxes RR, Hankook TD +7
5) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires and those with a UTQG treadwear rating of
50 to 130: Maxxis RC-1 (ex. Kumho V700, Michelin Pilot Sport Cup, Nitto NT01, Pirelli
PZero Corsa, Toyo R888, Toyo RA-1, Yokahama A048, etc.) +6

6) DOT-approved (non-R-compound) tires with a UTQG treadwear rating of 120-200
(examples: BFG g-Force Rival, Bridgestone Potenza RE070, Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec, Hankook R-S3, Kumho Ecsta XS, Toyo R1R, Yokohama Advan A046 & Neova AD08,) +2
7) Non-DOT-approved racing slicks +30 (of any origin--re-caps and re-treads are not permitted)


DELETE:
Note: Exception to 5.1.2:
1) The size 245 BFG R1 and R1S tires will be assessed a Modification Factor of +0.4 for tire
size (and not the listed +0.8) when calculating the “Adjusted Weight/Power Ratio”.
2) The size 275 BFG R1 and R1S tires will not be assessed a Modification Factor for tire size
(I.e. not the listed +0.4) when calculating the “Adjusted Weight/Power Ratio”.



This rule may also be deleted, but the determination will not be made until there are more available tire sizes for comparison with new the newer tire models:

Exception(s) to A.8): The Hoosier 255/35-18 (A6 & R6) will be assessed points based on its actual 275mm size (and not the 255mm listed on the sidewall)



8) The following tire sizes will be used as the base tire size for each Base Class for all
vehicles regardless of their OEM tire size(s) or their Final Competition Class. All
vehicles in a given base class may use this tire size (or smaller) without a points assessment:

PTB: 265mm, PTC: 255mm, PTD: 245mm, PTE: 235mm, PTF: 215mm,
PTG: 195mm, PTH: 175mm

Tire width points assessed or points credited are determined by the difference between the
width of the largest tire on the vehicle and the assigned base tire size as follows:

Equal to or greater than: 10mm +1, 20mm +4, 30mm +7, 40mm +10, 50mm +13,
60mm +16, 70mm +19, 80mm +22, 90mm +25, 100mm +28, 110mm +31

Equal to or less than: -10mm -1, -20mm -4, -30mm -7, DELETE -40mm -10

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National TT, PT, & ST Director
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:27 am 
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Consider leaving A6 and R6 at 2014 levels to allow people to burn through their existing inventory. Make those ineligible for Nationals if desired.

While we're in here; it never made sense to me that tires matter in the dry, but as soon as there's precipitation tires don't matter for classing and everyone can run whatever they want within the DOT category. Consider adding a table for points of differing wet-only tires and corresponding points values for each. That table only kicks in when a wet race is declared, similar to the existing procedures in 2014.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:00 pm 
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Please consider ZERO points for 200+ tread wear street tires. I like the fact that there is still a place for me to take me street/track car on street tires straight to the track and have fun. SCCA has said NO. This is a great opportunity for NASA to step up and give regular people an outlet for their regular cars! Thanks.

Drew


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:21 am 
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Drew wrote:
Please consider ZERO points for 200+ tread wear street tires. I like the fact that there is still a place for me to take me street/track car on street tires straight to the track and have fun. SCCA has said NO. This is a great opportunity for NASA to step up and give regular people an outlet for their regular cars! Thanks.

Drew

Above 200 treadwear tires are 0 points. "120-200" treadwear tires are +2. If you're asking for 120-190 treadwear streets to be +2 and 200 and above to be 0 points then that is something...I doubt will happen lol.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:50 am 
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+22? What data was used to come up with that number? I have a hard time seeing how the compound change of an A7 (or R1S) is 12 points faster, or are we just trying to say we really don't want people running those tires?

Also about having the R7 and SM7 on the same line/same points. Jim Drago (two time national champion in SM, and Hoosier sponsored driver) wrote the following when testing the R7 vs SM7:

Quote:
Hoosier asked me to test a set of new tires yesterday. The are the new R7, basically the sm7 compound with a new construction. They were really nice. I went out and hammered them for three sessions starting out as stickers. They never even thought of graining, zero wear and lap times were the same and conditions were hotter in each session where I would have expected to go slower. The tires were about a second faster than sm7 I was told. I would tend to agree.


Given the proposed points differential between the A7 and R7 and given that the SM7 is a second slower than the R7 (2.25 mile course), logic would dictate that the SM7 should only give +2. ;) But we know they are roughly .5 faster than an RR so joking aside, they should probably be a +8 or +9.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:48 am 
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DarkGift wrote:
+22? What data was used to come up with that number? I have a hard time seeing how the compound change of an A7 (or R1S) is 12 points faster, or are we just trying to say we really don't want people running those tires?


I share this sediment. This drives away tire companies from NASA and allows for a company to command prices and demand. Our choice is a +7 Toyo, +10 Hoosier, or +22 tire? That is a class change - if you do not have the P/W, adding tires will not make up for that. And effectively no wet tires? If we cannot race in our class on a set of wet tires then we will just not race.

Post the testing data showing laps times on the same car, driver, and track. Otherwise, prepare for people to exit the series and possibly NASA.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:31 am 
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Smike wrote:
DarkGift wrote:
+22? What data was used to come up with that number? I have a hard time seeing how the compound change of an A7 (or R1S) is 12 points faster, or are we just trying to say we really don't want people running those tires?


I share this sediment. This drives away tire companies from NASA and allows for a company to command prices and demand. Our choice is a +7 Toyo, +10 Hoosier, or +22 tire? That is a class change - if you do not have the P/W, adding tires will not make up for that. And effectively no wet tires? If we cannot race in our class on a set of wet tires then we will just not race.

Post the testing data showing laps times on the same car, driver, and track. Otherwise, prepare for people to exit the series and possibly NASA.

Rule 5.6 says
Quote:
5.6 Rain Competition/Racing:
In the event of rain and/or significant standing/running water on the track surface immediately before a competition session, the Race and/or Series Director may declare that competition session as a “Rain Session.” As well, during a race with less than half the laps completed, a Race Director may black flag the race, declare a “Rain Session/Race”, and then resume the race after the competitors have been given time to change to rain tires.
If the competition session is declared a "Rain Session" as above, any DOT-approved rain tire of the same size or smaller than listed on the Car Classification Form, as used in the prior dry competition session or race, can be used by the competitor in place of the dry tire. Tire points assessed will remain the same as listed on the “dry setup” Car Classification Form, regardless of whether or not the rain tire compound and size would otherwise yield fewer points or tire size points credit. Similarly, anti-roll (sway) bars may be loosened or removed, without a change in suspension points from the prior “dry setup” Car Classification Form. The purpose of this rule is to allow for these rain setup changes to the vehicles without: 1) the need for changes to the Car Classification Forms prior to the session, and 2) so that a competitor does not gain a points advantage by changing tire size, compound, or sway-bar setup.


This means you can use wet tires in the rain, but will be assessed the specified points if we tires are used in the dry.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:52 am 
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ILIKETODRIVE wrote:
Drew wrote:
Please consider ZERO points for 200+ tread wear street tires. I like the fact that there is still a place for me to take me street/track car on street tires straight to the track and have fun. SCCA has said NO. This is a great opportunity for NASA to step up and give regular people an outlet for their regular cars! Thanks.

Drew

Above 200 treadwear tires are 0 points. "120-200" treadwear tires are +2. If you're asking for 120-190 treadwear streets to be +2 and 200 and above to be 0 points then that is something...I doubt will happen lol.


I would ask that 120-199 treadwear streets to be +2 and exactly 200 and higher to be zero points. There are a lot of 200 treadwear tires available because of the SCCA classing.

It seems that would lower costs and attract more Time Trialers especially.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:24 am 
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agree with the 120-199 cutoff, 200+ seems to be actual street tires and not super low mileage trackday only stuff in general.

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2012 C6Z06
2010 RX8 R3


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:29 am 
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Ev wrote:
Smike wrote:
DarkGift wrote:
+22? What data was used to come up with that number? I have a hard time seeing how the compound change of an A7 (or R1S) is 12 points faster, or are we just trying to say we really don't want people running those tires?


I share this sediment. This drives away tire companies from NASA and allows for a company to command prices and demand. Our choice is a +7 Toyo, +10 Hoosier, or +22 tire? That is a class change - if you do not have the P/W, adding tires will not make up for that. And effectively no wet tires? If we cannot race in our class on a set of wet tires then we will just not race.

Post the testing data showing laps times on the same car, driver, and track. Otherwise, prepare for people to exit the series and possibly NASA.

Rule 5.6 says
Quote:
5.6 Rain Competition/Racing:
In the event of rain and/or significant standing/running water on the track surface immediately before a competition session, the Race and/or Series Director may declare that competition session as a “Rain Session.” As well, during a race with less than half the laps completed, a Race Director may black flag the race, declare a “Rain Session/Race”, and then resume the race after the competitors have been given time to change to rain tires.
If the competition session is declared a "Rain Session" as above, any DOT-approved rain tire of the same size or smaller than listed on the Car Classification Form, as used in the prior dry competition session or race, can be used by the competitor in place of the dry tire. Tire points assessed will remain the same as listed on the “dry setup” Car Classification Form, regardless of whether or not the rain tire compound and size would otherwise yield fewer points or tire size points credit. Similarly, anti-roll (sway) bars may be loosened or removed, without a change in suspension points from the prior “dry setup” Car Classification Form. The purpose of this rule is to allow for these rain setup changes to the vehicles without: 1) the need for changes to the Car Classification Forms prior to the session, and 2) so that a competitor does not gain a points advantage by changing tire size, compound, or sway-bar setup.


This means you can use wet tires in the rain, but will be assessed the specified points if we tires are used in the dry.


I am not sure I have ever heard of a race being declared a "rain session". And we have not black flagged and swapped.

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